Originally by: Space Pinata

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Edited by: Space Pinata on 27/12/2010 06:06:16
Edited by: Space Pinata on 27/12/2010 06:05:31

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(btw its tactics not strategy, way to remember the difference is tactics is what you use to win battles, Strategy is using battles to win a war)

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Indeed. I tried to mention both, as the large scale of EVE (sov wars) often comes down to logistics and morale.

The point is: Tactics and Strategy are nonexistant in a 1v1.

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But to claim that there is no skill involved? I mean come on you really think that two fleets meet and one just randomly shoots **** while the other uses focused fire staying on the proper primary that that won't affect the outcome of a battle?

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1) Following simple directions is the kind of "skill" that, if you havn't mastered it in kindergarten, gets you put into special ed classes.

I suppose of 'skilled' means 'not mentally handicapped', then yes, these people are 'skilled'.

2) The entire example is useless because, for the nth time, I've already conceded that there is skill in the tactics that occur in a fleet fight.

My point is, and always has been, that that skill is rendered irrelevant in a 1v1.

EVE ships are too specialized for 1v1 to be a skillfight. There are three outcomes.

Rock -> Scissors: Your ship directly counters your enemy. Rapier vs Inty or Curse vs Laserboat, etc. You win.

Rock -> Paper: Same as above, except they counter you, and you die.

Rock -> Rock: Two ships that fight the same way. No hard counters. A straight fight. Whoever has the stronger ship wins. (Counting skillpoints, fit, hull, etc).

People are either arguing that there's some majestic zen that lets you click really really fast to improve combat results..

Or assuming I'm talking about fleets. I'm not.

Again, if I wasn't clear: 1v1 pvp is devoid of tactics and strategy. Tactics and strategy are the skill of EVE. QED

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The biggest problem with EvE PvP is too much information. Since fights are decided before they begin, letting everyone know the details of what the fight would be (ship and character information) means that anyone can predict to a very high degree of accuracy what the outcome will be, so you almost never get two people rushing in towards each other swords drawn. You get one chasing, one fleeing, and a blob somewhere waiting to annihilate anyone who thinks people are playing for fun. (If you feel that blob warfare is fun you seriously have mental issues to workout).

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That's how real warfare is, and has always, been. EVE could drop some of it's 'realism' and make loss meaningless, and fights more common and action packed, but that's not the kind of game this is.

You have to look at PVP from the perspective of a general, not a guy with a sword and something to prove. The fun is in coordinating the ebb and flow of battle, when to engage, when to fall back, which risks to take... how to lure your enemy into exactly the position you want them in.

And, of course, how to do all this without the enemy killing you.

People have this image, for some reason, that a battle is meant to be some thing where two sides bravely and recklessly charge at each other, firing wildly while some kind of metal blares in the background.

That's, unfortunately, something reserved for action movies.

tl;dr: EVE combat is not a series of fair honorduelz where people try to prove they have the bigger genitals. It's much deeper and more strategy-oriented than that.

If you don't like it, you're playing the wrong game. And I don't mean that as an insult; I mean, you'd be having more fun playing Call of Duty or something, where you -will- get pitched battles based upon individual twitchy-skills.

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